tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post8702386361090304226..comments2024-03-27T18:42:55.138+00:00Comments on KEITH'S WARGAMING BLOG: Why We WargameKeith Flinthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12903769462646267048noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-56154507742578794142021-06-28T21:11:54.949+01:002021-06-28T21:11:54.949+01:00Dale, thanks for taking the trouble to leave your ...Dale, thanks for taking the trouble to leave your thoughtful and enlightening post, especially as your background and interests in the hobby are different from many of us.<br /><br />"genuine joy" - what a nice phrase. As you imply, just because wargaming is trivial and whimsical that doesn't necessarily make it less valuable or important as any other part of our lives.Keith Flinthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12903769462646267048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-39075405258681466252021-06-28T01:53:10.570+01:002021-06-28T01:53:10.570+01:00This is a really interesting conversation, one I j...This is a really interesting conversation, one I just stumbled on in my occasional rummaging around the internet looking for wargaming stuff. The comment by vtsaogames sort of struck home because his wargaming background sounds similar to mine (growing up in the shadow of WW2 - I am a baby boomer in America, playing with little green soldiers, the cardboard markers on boardgames representing generals). Yep, that's me. Only I just "discovered" wargaming as a hobby a few years ago in the middle of my retirement. Since then I have read many blogs, including those of many of the contributors here, most of the books by the big names in the hobby, tried gaming in different periods (I finally am playing at WW2 with Bolt Action and Blitzkrieg Commander rules). What I really enjoyed, though, about this conversation is the true sense of genuine joy you all have in pursuing this hobby. I'm 75 years old and every time I read another book or blog, or try a new set of rules, or even play a new game or create a new campaign scenerio, I feel it too. And I am a kid again too. Oh those wonderful little green soldiers. But now I can appreciate how much more there is to this hobby than I would have known as a kid. And another thing that stands out in this conversation is that there is appreciation of every aspect of it - modeling, terrain-making, figure-painting, studying history, etc. etc., AND respect for those who pursue it in different ways. Tony Adams makes fabulous woodscrew armies, many of you have battle tables and armies of fantastic elegant figures that I drool over. As for me, I am not that artistic and don't have the patience to indulge in that side of the hobby. I will simply admire the wonderful work done by others. My solo wargaming world is played out with cardboard markers and wooden blocks (like Kriegspiel), paper battle maps 17 inches x 22 inches in size, hand-drawn, using many different sets of rules, most of which I have modified in some way. It's perhaps a simpler way to go about it, but I derive all the enjoyment I need out of it. My point is that I agree with all of you. It's about having FUN!dalethewargamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11880250994936688330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-60738563192806709502021-05-13T11:50:22.471+01:002021-05-13T11:50:22.471+01:00Brian, your partners' reaction has been shared...Brian, your partners' reaction has been shared by a number of reviewers. In a way, showing the problems people have encountered is refreshingly honest, but it does run the risk of leaving out the innocent pleasure of a generally light-hearted hobby.Keith Flinthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12903769462646267048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-65865942672032671652021-05-05T21:47:42.159+01:002021-05-05T21:47:42.159+01:00Just found this post and it really makes me wish t...Just found this post and it really makes me wish that we had another documentary that celebrated the "whimsy" of the hobby.<br /><br />My partner watched the documentary with me back when it was released in the US on Amazon and remarked how the overall tone was rather sad. Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09487819789867185529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-6152721719650171582021-05-05T11:45:51.378+01:002021-05-05T11:45:51.378+01:00Thank you very much for this thought provoking pos...Thank you very much for this thought provoking post.having contemplated my navel for all of three minutes, I am moved to reply. <br /><br />I agree. Escapism? Maybe.Fun? Certainly! Like every hobby there are pedants/ accuracy/technology freaks, and if there are, so what? Luckily, we can play the way each of us wants (solo) or with like minded friendsb ( really an excuse for socialosing!) . Some like competition, to others it is anathema. Putting the cares and worries of daily life aside for a few hours whilst playing, painting, creating or perusing MUST be good for one's mental health.<br />If you like it and it is legal.... do it. En avant mes braves ! Johnny Dangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04433450099562157160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-89341639564087101542021-05-04T18:17:32.288+01:002021-05-04T18:17:32.288+01:00I think all wargamers are desperately in need of i...I think all wargamers are desperately in need of intervention. Oh wait, that's me!!<br /><br />:)<br /><br />Bottom line is that it is a pretty harmless combination of craftiness [terrain and figs], history [research and "realism"] and game playing [sometimes lost on a few people...that it's just a game, but generally...] that is not nearly as appealing without the miniatures and terrain.<br /><br />Not that there's anything wrong with the many lovely board games around today, they are often just as visually appealing and easier for non-crafty people to buy into. We aren't all retired.<br /><br />Bottom line, is unless you are neglecting other obligations with the money and time you spend on the hobby, it is harmless like any other hobby. Just a bit more unusual, is all.ECW 40mm Projecthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16170190784599775214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-28170177264072033892021-03-17T23:29:23.832+00:002021-03-17T23:29:23.832+00:00Fascinating discussion and follow-up comments.
In...Fascinating discussion and follow-up comments.<br /><br />In other contexts we often hear about escapism - in film or written literature, say. But who is escaping - a prisoner or a deserter? There is that about real life that can feel constricting or suffocating, and maybe on that account justifiably from which to step outside from time to time. But if it means stepping aside from responsibility and obligations, that is another thing altogether. <br /><br />I don't see War Gaming as escapism either way, myself. Rather it presents a whole different world in which one is free to create whatever narrative suits one's fancy - or fantasy. I have a lot of worlds, that I can visit as the mood takes me - and more than once these worlds have taken on a life of their own, not necessarily as I willed it, nor yet consciously 'randomly generated'. Sometimes these worlds collide or merge with each other as their narratives develop over time. <br /><br />Possibly this colours my attitude to how others present their war games. I can admire finely crafted terrain and lovingly painted troops. Yet such things attract my eye no more than an imaginative set-up, using extemporised terrain, impressionistic (or expressionistic?) models, and indifferently painted or even unpainted figures. The key, though, are figures and models - miniatures. Tokens and blocks just don't have that 'humanising' factor that draws one in. <br /><br />War Gaming is fun - and, being fun, there are lines I won't cross, or perhaps more accurately: if I cross them, I'll recross them as soon as may be. Possibly one of those lines concerns the Waffen SS. My German army has no Waffen SS in it - not formally. But if a scenario I want to play out calls for SS troops, I have sufficient near-enough 'lookalikes' that can stand for them for the duration of the action. At the close of the action they become 'German Army' once more. Perhaps that is mere casuistry, but where I stand it seems to make a difference. <br /><br />Cheers,<br />Ion (Archduke Piccolo) DowmanArchduke Piccolohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15533325665451889661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-4909361658774647442021-03-17T19:30:07.983+00:002021-03-17T19:30:07.983+00:00Re-write after my IT skills failed...in the event ...Re-write after my IT skills failed...in the event of this being posted twice - sorry. Don’t feel obliged to read it twice, even out of politeness.<br /><br />Like a good book painting is a simple and constructively peaceful activity that offers a break from other pressures. Gaming on the other hand is an excuse to socialise - strange opposites on a spectrum of interpersonal engagement.<br /><br />There is another, possibly niche, reason. I am a serving soldier. As such I think about conflict pretty much constantly (my wife is so lucky...). I have run Wargames for my soldiers and officers. From taking section commanders through company scale games to divisional scale actions with all the Battalion’s officer in play. Now, I’ll admit I’m not talking Team Yankee or Bolt Action but still all run with game mechanics that this audience would recognise and could participate in. There is value in thinking through tactical problems and gaming them out.<br /><br />I’m not suggesting that we be naive enough to consider ourselves better than Lee if, in 6mm, we can break the Federal line at Gettysburg. But, the principles of war are unchanging and ground is still god. In my experience once the jokes about trolls and dice are out the way soldiers respond well to the challenge of an adversarial game.<br /><br />All that said, I play Bolt Action with another officer with no goal greater than the satisfaction of a good beer, a better chat and a decently dressed table with some averagely painted figures.<br /><br />Once COVID eases we’re running through the Bolt Action Fortress Budapest campaign. No doubt we’ll over think it; but, it’s a simple pleasure and I’m looking forward to it. Probably all the explanation that’s required despite the rant above.Armoured Thinkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04763050324373367337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-50537761722908260282021-02-28T13:55:06.070+00:002021-02-28T13:55:06.070+00:00Oops, me again!
"It gives us pleasure and fu...Oops, me again!<br /><br />"It gives us pleasure and fun, its that simple."<br /><br />Perhaps the only point of yours I might disagree with. Personally, I find that very little in life is simple, and especially the workings of the human mind.Keith Flinthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12903769462646267048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-41269264654750394942021-02-28T13:50:47.965+00:002021-02-28T13:50:47.965+00:00Tony, meant to add something regarding your point ...Tony, meant to add something regarding your point 'we should be grateful'. An excellent point indeed. A strong sense of appreciation regarding the positive parts of our lives is well worth cultivating and being aware of.Keith Flinthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12903769462646267048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-86967731524582009912021-02-28T13:47:27.071+00:002021-02-28T13:47:27.071+00:00Overall Tony, I couldn't agree more. I wasn...Overall Tony, I couldn't agree more. I wasn't implying that there was any 'problem' with the hobby - rather the opposite.<br /><br />However, a lot of wargamers do spend a lot (sometimes an awful lot) of their everyday lives thinking about, and practising, wargaming in its many forms. The same goes for most other absorbing and worthwhile hobbies. I just happen to be one of those people who seeks to understand more fully why this might be. I want to think about why I do what I do, because it is clearly a significant part of who I am. <br /><br />For example, you and I both agree wargaming is geeky, and this doesn't bother us. So why would some gamers seek to deny this in some way? I find that kind of thing interesting.<br /><br />Many thanks for chipping in with your views.<br /><br />Keith Flinthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12903769462646267048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-81819376280863958002021-02-27T16:09:23.265+00:002021-02-27T16:09:23.265+00:00Sorry I am a little late to offer my simple opinio...Sorry I am a little late to offer my simple opinion but I only just found this discussion. I have read the original article and comments with much interest. I am afraid I think it is all a lot over thought. Wargaming and model soldier painting and modelling is geeky full stop and who cares. If we find it a fun thing to do and we harm no others whats the problem. The majority of non wargamers/modellers think our hobby is weird but that's ok. It gives us pleasure and fun, its that simple. There is no need for deep complex analysis trying to understand why. Its just a hobby that we enjoy in its many and varied forms. I long ago realised that my version was seen as "not right" by conventional wargamers/modellers, after all,I must be the only person in the world who paints woodscrews as soldiers. Do I care, of course not. I like it and there are a few out there who seem to find it interesting so that's fine with me. As one of the earlier comments said, there are plenty of people who love to spend all their time under the bonnet of cars, do they engage in mental gymnastics to understand why, of course not. They do it because they like it. We have a hobby that gives us pleasure and we should be grateful. Finally I must agree with the last few comments. I too am a child of the 50's and the war was very fresh in the collective mind so it was inevitable that we children would be impacted. Was that why we grew to like wargaming/modelling, who knows...who cares. Lets just enjoy our hobby and concentrate on creating the next cavalry regiment !!!!!Tony Adamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01157817672159439274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-61852706573806941712021-02-17T13:11:01.930+00:002021-02-17T13:11:01.930+00:00The shadow of WW2. Yes indeed. The war must have s...The shadow of WW2. Yes indeed. The war must have seemed very recent to my parents when I was born in 1957. My dad saw combat in Sicily and Italy.<br />Even in the sixties as I was growing up, WW2 was so much part of popular culture. All those war films! So an interest in military things didn't seem that strange. And then was Airfix - I think in the end it was that company that was responsible for me getting into wargaming.Keith Flinthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12903769462646267048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-560135750664616302021-02-15T20:44:53.233+00:002021-02-15T20:44:53.233+00:00Why the fascination with the military? For me, an ...Why the fascination with the military? For me, an easy answer; I grew up in the shadow of WWII and our American servicemen (and our allies) were heroes. I liked green army men when quite small. Discovering war games rules (Morschauser) at the age of 13 was great, though I bought into calling the figures 'military miniatures' and such. Years later I owned up to playing with toy soldiers. Back in the day I bought Avalon Hill board games that said players pushing cardboard pieces were generals. I outgrew that too. We are not in mortal danger, not exhausted, not dealing with the death or maiming of friends and colleagues, at least not in our games. Yes, it is a nerdy hobby. But I see other folks spend more money jacking up their vehicle to preposterous altitudes, or having colored lights show underneath their vehicles. Each to their own. I like painting, reading and playing. One man's meat is another man's poison.<br /><br />And oh yes, happy Mardi Gras.vtsaogameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13104194914166417310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-17464721877070320902021-02-15T15:07:07.231+00:002021-02-15T15:07:07.231+00:00An interesting website I'm very interested in ...An interesting website I'm very interested in the comments from others in particular your intro that mentioned a VETERAN with PTSD !! I'm an HMF veteran ex RAF Regt /LI reg and TA !! Ok I got into hobby as,a boy and there was NO VALID reason to stop just because I took QUEENS shilling (poss!? Best thing I ever did LOL ) NO Regrets!! I'm now semi retirement (enjoying it and cracking on with MANY long neglected WARGAMING forces kits and assembly etc ) just been reading various wargaming blogs over last few days ... which is helpful ...no end in the motivation side of it thanks!! Time to get back to some assembly ...."ATTACK" just been on TV DIR: BOB ALTMAN stellar cast PALANCE MARVIN ALBERT et al mega film so! Those 28mm BA M3 1/2 trks (previous prep done ) looking good LOL<br />Russ MAYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06242272351167240055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-39413517536887350622021-02-12T18:34:23.527+00:002021-02-12T18:34:23.527+00:00Good post , thank you, it got everyone thinking! M...Good post , thank you, it got everyone thinking! Maybe a little over-thinking indeed, but equally I suspect that some people who talk about 'escape' are themselves 'under-thinking?' It's a bit of cliche phrase that's very easy to reach for, perhaps without really considering what it means - didn't Orwell talk about language that goes from speaker to listener without involving any actual thought on either part? (now I sound a bit harsh on people, sorry!). <br />Having said that, a very good friend of mine tells me "I actually did, and do, find escape in wargaming... Normal life as a boy could be bad enough that I would seek escape where I could find it and throw myself into a wargame with that in mind". So I accept that entirely. <br />You have of course made me think about the 'why' question - why this fascination with warfare, and re-creating it in miniature? I can't honestly say, it's just sort of - 'there', and I'm not a warlike chap. I think the leavening of whimsy that the Grant/Young/Featherstone generation applied is indeed a saving grace - their use of Imagi-nations perhaps emphasises that this is thankfully not real ( notice Grant had 'Red' and 'Black' in WW2 period, not Nazis vs. Stalinists.. ). It's only a game - but a rather fascinating one. Thanks again! david in suffolkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02945969485547328039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-9731897632625114282021-02-11T18:49:39.389+00:002021-02-11T18:49:39.389+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.david in suffolkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02945969485547328039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-3130338728780399112021-02-09T19:40:16.489+00:002021-02-09T19:40:16.489+00:00Arthur - you may well be right. Perhaps I am split...Arthur - you may well be right. Perhaps I am splitting hairs here. You're even more right about wargaming as a spectator sport. The only people to have really pulled that off are Little Wars TV.<br /><br />Ashley - no problem. The point of these posts is to promote discussion so I appreciate you taking the trouble to post your own views.<br /><br />Jim - like I said to Arthur, I may be indeed be overthinking things. But all this talk of escape makes me kind of nervous. What's so bad in our lives that we need to escape from them? But whatever your thoughts on that, I think it is helpful to see our hobby as just as much a real part of our lives as work and all the rest.Keith Flinthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12903769462646267048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-47323280422385626122021-02-09T16:30:59.952+00:002021-02-09T16:30:59.952+00:00I wonder if you've not 'over thought' ...I wonder if you've not 'over thought' the significance of the use of 'escape' in the film, or in everyday speech, though I do share your attitude towards my own wargaming - I'm simply enjoying myself moving toy soldiers about and trying to defeat my opponent. <br /><br />In my opinion, wargaming has never worked as a 'spectator sport' - most games move on far too slowly to keep the attention of anyone watching, rather than playing - so a film about wargaming is inevitably doomed to fail to capture the pleasure of actually playing in a game. <br /><br />Years and years ago I saw a television programme in which a chess game was presented in stop frame animation, so the pieces appeared to move by themselves, with no time for thought between moves, while the players' ideas, intentions &c. were given as voice-overs. The programme moved along quickly and was very entertaining. Recreate that technique with wargame figures, and you might be on to something... <br /><br />Best wishes,<br />Arthur<br />arthur1815https://www.blogger.com/profile/12333670394529977263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-22769608035361071272021-02-09T11:25:17.737+00:002021-02-09T11:25:17.737+00:00Hello Keith. An air traffic controller with a spl...Hello Keith. An air traffic controller with a spliff :-) <br /> An interesting post but I think that the language used is open to several interpretations. One friend, when his toys splendidly withstood a withering fire said 'They are the marines (not Royal at the time) - they love it'. The rest of us chuckled without any concern that he was escaping from reality in a bad sense. When playing, I don't think 'I am moving these bits of metal over the bridge' but 'The 10th Foot and Mouth are crossing the bridge' and when battle reports appear in blogs they have similar wording. To me this is escapism just as when I enjoy a film or novel. Perhaps I have not fully understood your message but these are my thoughts.<br />Best wishes and stay well<br /><br />JimJim Walkleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14560538077308114604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-81133534676557466762021-02-09T11:10:52.339+00:002021-02-09T11:10:52.339+00:00Hi Keith,
Sorry if my reply came off sharper than...Hi Keith,<br /><br />Sorry if my reply came off sharper than intended. Should've added some more mellifluous words to frame my point. I have a background in mental health, and no doubt see things differently.<br /><br />But you're right. The hobby is a part of our life. However, it also provides an escape from the mundane stresses of life too.<br /><br />It can be both is all I'm saying. Not everything we do has to be important in the bigger scheme of things. Ashleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13666947574653683678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-60857517613898820362021-02-09T08:52:36.647+00:002021-02-09T08:52:36.647+00:00The fact that we can sit at a paint table and have...The fact that we can sit at a paint table and have two or more hours disappear very quickly without thinking too much about the stresses and strains that our daily work and domestic routines impose sounds like an escape to me. Albeit that the description of it being an escape relates more to the change from the routine and mundane and a move to something more pleasurable. By engaging in a hobby that can be so immersive it allows the body to release endorphins which help in the relief of stress and anxiety, all good things and to be encouraged. So, for me at least, it is an escape but only in an ability to allow the rest of my world/life to continue without further degradation of my well being.marinergrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01393687295535460527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-47475106119269453782021-02-09T08:48:19.862+00:002021-02-09T08:48:19.862+00:00Hello Keith,
I am in agreement with all you have ...Hello Keith,<br /><br />I am in agreement with all you have written. It is a "nerdy" hobby (a lot of hobbies are - only today discovered a workmate has a fascination with buses as a hobby). Hobbies for some people are escapism, but for most others it is, I think, just the enjoyment. <br />Shaun Travershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05691522858410783769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-24360389954550096922021-02-08T23:38:17.722+00:002021-02-08T23:38:17.722+00:00Well, it's my Hobby and I love it. The movie i...Well, it's my Hobby and I love it. The movie is available on Amazon Prime in the States; is on the UK version maybe?<br />Neil<br /><br />https://toysoldiersanddiningroombattles.blogspot.com/Neilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06340245421938640537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1430463007570237159.post-69868796054376002562021-02-08T23:15:58.777+00:002021-02-08T23:15:58.777+00:00Great response, Mark, and I am nodding in agreemen...Great response, Mark, and I am nodding in agreement with everything you said. Chuckling too..,Jonathan Freitaghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07862373894196924886noreply@blogger.com